Wednesday, March 18, 2015

Alex Jones Interviews Kent Hovind - Can Bill O'Reilly Be Far Behind?

Kent Hovind (Doc Dino) is one of the leading lights in the field of Young Earth Creationism, the notion that there is scientific evidence for a hyper-literal reading of the Book of Genesis. YEC implies that the world is roughly 6,000 years old and dinosaurs and humans must have co-existed. 

 Nearing the end of a long sentence for tax related crimes, Hovind was convicted on March 12, 2015 for contempt of court.  The more recent conviction arose out of filings that might have interfered with the government's sale of property seized in relation to the earlier conviction.  The jury hung on more serious fraud and conspiracy charges, which Hovind and his supporters view as a victory.

A kind of bonus from my following of the Kent Hovind trial and the work of his supporters, whom I call the Hovindicators has been something of a tour of the religious right conspiracy theory wing of the internet.  At least in the precincts that Rudy Davis favors, it seems that videos and podcasts trump the written word.  That is a bit of a challenge for me as those things tend to suck up more time than blogposts.  It is a lot easier to scan a blog post to see if there is anything new in it than it is to listen to podcasts or videos.

At any rate, Kent was giving a lot of interviews with Rudy and Ernie Land making the arrangements.  Even I got to interview Kent Hovind.

Others who interviewed Kent were Dan Bidondi, Dave Daubenmire, God's Property Radio and Pete Santilli.  One interview seemed to be eluding the Hovindicators and it seemed to be important.  That was Alex Jones of Infowars.

I have this impression that the major league for right wing conspiracy is Fox.  Before you get to talk to Bill O'Reilly though you need to spend some time in the minors.  And it seems like Alex Jones is the AAA league.  When you are on Alex Jones it's like you've got a Red Sox uniform and you're playing in Pawtucket 45 miles and one phone call away from being in Fenway.

Regardless of the value of my metaphor, it was a big deal to Rudy that Infowars was not responding. So yesterday Kent finally got interviewed by Alex Jones.  This is a portion of the show that includes the interview.  He starts talking about Kent around 3:05 and the interview starts around 21:50.

Alex Jones is a busy guy so I guess the Hovindicators will have to forgive him for indicating that Kent had been running a 501(c)(3) organization.  Kent has the view, much promoted by Glenn Stoll, that ministries have a kind of per se exemption form any accountability to secular authority.  His path into tax resistance seems to have commenced with his resistance to pulling building permits.

Not Much New

As something of a connoisseur of Kent Hovind interviews, I have to say that there was not a lot special about this one.  It was shorter than most with the Alex Jones doing most of the talking.  The focus is on the structuring charges with the religious persecution narrative.  In the before and after we heard about Judge Rodgers and the "worst than rape" statement, her attack on praying teachers and the bottle of Vaseline one of the prosecutors had in his possession when apprehended on his way to an assignation with a five year old.

Another County Heard From

There was one thing that was unique about this presentation.  The Hovind expert that Alex Jones was consulting was Mark Adams, who has not been heard from previously to my knowledge.  Adams is working on a biography of recently deceased Congressman George Hansen who distinguished himself battling the IRS among other things, including a couple of stretches in prison.  The correspondence in surname with Hovind's codefendant, Paul John Hansen, is coincidence, as best I can determine.

Mark Adams brought up the case of Jerry Dwayne Lang, whose structuring conviction had been overturned by the Eleventh Circuit.  The Circuit had previously confirmed Kent's conviction.

What is interesting about this is other Hovindicators do not seem to have latched onto the Lang case.  It something that I broke on and it is another contribution to the Hovind cause by their nemesis Bob Baty, who pointed me to the Lang decision,  (Bob also managed to dig up the letters from three tax pros that Kent relied on to show he had done nothing wrong.  Let's just say I have issues with how good those letters are.)

It is really not that exciting, but it is something.  Kent was charged with 45 counts of structuring.  He and his wife were withdrawing amounts slightly below $10,000 in order to be able to pay bills and payroll in cash without triggering currency reporting requirements.  The holding in Lang was that two deposits of less than $10,000 that total more than $10,000 constitute a single act of structuring not two.  So if Hovind were indicted today on the 2006 charges he would only be charged with 22 counts of structuring rather than 45.  Under the sentencing guidelines, that would not have affected him much if any.  In fact the way the guidelines work, throwing the structuring charges out entirely might not have affected his sentence much.  It would however be meaningful for the forfeiture which is the source of Kent Hovind's current problems.

Regardless it was interesting to hear a new voice with a new angle.

Hovindicator Reaction

#FreeKent, the flagship website of the Hovindication movement is resentful of Alex Jones's coming late to the game and distrustful of his agenda.

It would not be surprising if Alex Jones hijacks the Christian movement to expose IRS and judicial corruption using Kent Hovind’s tribulation. He, along with the Infowars brand, will undoubtedly say that they broke Kent Hovind’s story and gave Christians the big push they needed to declare victory. 
Sorry Alex Jones and, you guys dropped the ball… a very heavy ball. History will show that you suppressed VITAL information that can change America. Alex Jones, your listeners will realize that you are a waste of time. Infowars listeners will realize that Alex Jones provides daily 6-8 hours of conspiracy entertainment that is no different than watching ESPN/Disney/Hollywood. 
Through months of tireless efforts, more attention has been brought to Kent Hovind than Alex Jones could ever do. In fact, we are terrified Alex Jones will be the apparatus the controlled media needs to defame Kent Hovind and all of his supporters – ruining the public support we have garnered thus far.
Ernie Land, Kent's old friend and consigliere, to whom Hovindicators defer,  responded to my request for comments.

As you have noted there are many theological views even by us “born again” Christians. I do not like the fact that many inside our own camp are firing shots at each other, but one has to admit there are very strong views here by a very strong group of people. I say that because those with their heads in the sand, may agree with those of us speaking out loudly, but they fearfully remain silent. If it were not so we would have overwhelmed Congress and the Courts early on with our stances and our show of support. I am very grateful to have Alex Jones cover the case, late as it may be, It is bringing awareness for round 2. I also wish we would hold our fire for those in the enemy camps out there. To me it’s like the Christian argument of pre, mid, or post tribulation on which when I am asked I say my belief is ready trib, who cares, God is in control, so I must be prepared to meet God now!

For now, my own measure of the progress of Hovindication in the public square will be the number of signatures on the We The People petition  for his pardon.  The count is 443 as I write this.

In Case You Have Time On Your Hands

Here is the full show which runs over two hours.  I did not listen to that much of it.


  1. Peter, let me try again to explain why Lang doesn't help Kent's cause and why I think Lang is being misrepresented.

    You wrote, in part:

    "The holding in Lang was that two deposits of less
    than $10,000 that total more than $10,000 constitute
    a single act of structuring not two. So if Hovind were
    indicted today on the 2006 charges he would only be
    charged with 22 counts of structuring rather than 45."

    That's just not it, in my opinion.

    Lang came into a lot more than $10,000 and broke it down in to several deposits that were each charged separately as structuring.

    The appeals court said that breaking down a large sum into smaller sums to evade bank reporting rules is one count.

    That, however, is not what was going on in Hovind's case.

    Hovind's case is factually distinguishable and legally distinguishable from Lang because in Hovind's case someone would go to the bank, there would be more than $10,000 in the bank, and an amount of less than $10,000 would be withdrawn in order to evade the bank reporting rules.

    So, in Hovind's case, each withdrawal to evade the bank reporting rules was properly, legally charged as a separate incident of structuring.

    That's what the indictement said, that's what Kent was convicted for doing, and that is what the appeals court ruled.

    The later Lang case, in my opinion, would not change that.

    I think it is important to note that distinction, factually and legally, especially now that the Lang case has been specifically identified on the Alex Jones' show.

    If anyone is interested, I may have time to dig into the Lang details further and either change my opinion or help others to more clearly see why my evaluation is to be preferred.

  2. In general, I would think Kent Hovind could be a great right-wing hero. I don't understand how he hasn't broken into the big time--except for one thing. If Kent talks long enough, he starts going off into sovereign citizen nuttery. Even to Fox News, that sounds crazycakes. I don't think there's any sympathy for out and out sovereign citizens among more popular right wing pundits.

    1. If we truly want to know if Fox News would support Doctor D, we must ponder a simple question: "What would Al-Waleed bin Talal want?"